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Hi Trev!? I hope you are doing well!
I've come across a few tidbits regarding the Paleo Diet and gout.? There are a few?snippits on this site:? http://www.thepaleodiet.com/success_stories/? just do a text search for 'gout' on that page.? I also found something about how a 10 year gout sufferer was able to get off all gout meds after a time of adhering to the Paleo Diet.? I won't be quitting my Allopurinol anytime soon, but it is interesting none-the-less and something to explore in the future perhaps.
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The more I read, the more I'm convinced that this diet just might be a good choice for some gout sufferers.? I can already say that not eating bread or pasta or any type of packaged food and introducing a bit of red meat over the past five days has really made a big difference in my energy levels.? I also have noticed that I'm thinking a lot more clearly.? I have felt?nary a twinge?in any joint, but it still is early.? I also just feel 'leaner'.? It's hard to explain, but I'll post updates every now and then to let others know how I'm doing.? I'll also start back with my blog (which I just haven't had time for lately!).?
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I found the information regarding gut health interesting also.? I've noticed that?it has been feeling a lot better too.? Now, I just need to find a supplier of grass-fed beef here in Germany.? I tried asking at my local butcher and was just met with confused looks.? Perhaps my German butcher jargon just isn't up to snuff!? At least I know that the meat I'm getting is hormone and nitrate free.? Grass-fed is supposed to be key in the diet, however (makes sense).
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The peak I skied up near Schatzberg, Austria this past Saturday.? It was a looooong ski back to the valley floor but an absolute blast!? Well, except for getting lost in the woods for 3 hours!?
More here:? http://www.flickr.com/photos/atwoodn/sets/72157625881384067/
Just found this:
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“Can Excess Protein lead to more Uric Acid and Gout?
It?s true that excess uric acid can lead to gout. It?s also true that uric acid is produced from the consumption of purines and that purines are found in higher amounts in things like organ meat and sardines, but the amount of purine is minimal in other muscle meat. It?s also good to note that when you eat more protein, your kidneys will extract more uric acid in your urine to compensate. Higher amounts of uric acid is also produced when you eat more fructose and your kidneys don?t compensate this time.
In this optic, eating more protein than a standard American diet and way less fructose (found in sodas and almost all packaged products with high-fructose corn syrup) should actually reduce the uric acid load in your blood.”
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/paleo-diet-faq/#q16
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Thoughts?
thanks, Trev. I've actually been accused of drinking TOO much water! I drink at least 4 liters/day – sometimes more depending on how active I am. My only vice? Mixing in a bit of Pepsi One while I'm working.
The funny thing with the exercise is that I'm not really doing a lot that would stress the joints directly. Maybe on my hikes it would a bit, but the biking is fairly low impact along with the rest of the stuff. I think it may have to do with getting my heart rate up for a sustained period, but I'm not expert on this. I can't blame this latest attack on diet or drugs or anything else, so I'm thinking it has to be the exercise.
Funny, isn't it – you try to do good for your body and this is how it reacts. I always loved when doctors would tell me to get exercise while treating me for a horrible attack. Um, yeah – how should I do that again? Have you seen my ankle, buddy?
Hope you're doing well, Trev. I haven't gotten on this site as much as I've wanted recently. Pretty busy right now, but in a good way!
I've now been on 600mg Allo/day for almost an entire year. I have been a gout sufferer for over 15 years. It's always hard to quantify just how bad your gout is, but I had it pretty darn bad. Absolute crippling attacks in various joints, one after the other, and often in multiple joints at the same time. After starting the Allo, I still had severe attacks for at least three months. Eventually, the frequency of the attacks subsided, but I still was getting some pretty bad episodes for another 6 months. So, after about 9 months, I seemed to be almost gout free. This lasted for three months and abruptly ended last night – a hellacious attack hit my right big toe and the top of my foot hard and fast. This is almost a year later AFTER starting 600mg Allo/day.
Let me also add, that once I started taking Allo, I quit eating almost all meat, quit drinking alcohol, and changed my diet to include mostly fresh fruits and veggies. I've come to accept the fact that after 15 years of suffering with debilitating gout, it's going to take my body a long time to get rid of the built up SUA in my body. Six months? Not for me. Shit, I'm thinking more like two years or more, even with consistent UA readings of 4.9 and below. But, at least the attacks are occurring with much, much less frequency and I am almost living a normal life now.
I've also been through the knee thing. Two surgeries for two torn meniscuses and another for a damaged patellar tendon. I also slightly tore my left MCL almost two years ago but opted not to have surgery on that. I also have had really bad gout attacks in both knees. The difference in pain between a gout attack in the knee and an injured knee is much, much different and very easy to tell apart. I went through having my knees aspirated approximately 15 times (confirming gout), which does help with the pain and swelling.
It all boils down to this – stay the course. Eat healthy and stay on your meds. It's going to take time. Keep seeing your doc, get your UA levels checked regularly and try to keep a positive attitude. I know the last can be difficult. I was cursing at inanimate objects last night as I writhed around in pain at 3am.
Best of luck to you!
PS – I have two pairs of Birkenstocks. They are indispensable when I'm having an attack in my foot (like now).
The knees are the worst. I've probably suffered through 10 or so horrible attacks in my knees over the past 5 years or so. Absolutely f'ing brutal to go through! I feel for you!
STAY ON THE ALLOPURINOL when you start it back up! I actually started taking 600mg / day about 9 months ago while I was experiencing a bad attack in my knee. I was basically going from attack to attack in different joints with no breaks in between. I figured it couldn't get any worse, so I started the Allo. Now, 9 months later, I'm fairly confident that I'm over the worst of my gout. I will be taking Allo for the rest of my life as I never want to go through that type of pain again!
I still am experiencing pain in my knees and I'm sure it has a lot to do with the gout attacks I went through. However, I also have some pretty screwed up knees from sports. I don't know if my knees will ever be the same after the damage that has been done to them. Hopefully, with only a few attacks under your belt, not that much damage has been done and you can return to a normal state.
Stay on the Allo, eat healthy, avoid the alcohol and keep your chin up! It will get better!
best of luck to you!
jlew – I wish you the best of luck with your gout and other problems. Nobody here will think you a crybaby for venting on this forum! As a person who has suffered through many, many sports injuries, broken bones, surgeries, etc., I can honestly say that a bad gout attack is more painful than any of them!
When you're feeling gout free, get your UA levels tested to see where you are at. If your levels keep coming back 'normal' (<6mg/dl) but you continue to experience attacks, you'll likely have to get the affected joint drained and the fluid tested. It's the only way to confirm that you do indeed have gout.
There are a ton of different ways to tackle gout. I've tried many of them, most with very little success. After being on 600mg / day of Allopurinol over the past 9 months however, I'm finally seeing positive results. With a continued good diet, abstaining from alcohol and taking my daily dose of Allo, I hope to keep the worst of the gout attacks at bay for the rest of my life. I NEVER want to go back to where I was a year ago with my gout!
Zip – discussed this with my doc yesterday. With all the traveling I'll be doing, he thought it would be best to stay on that doseage for now. We'll likely knock it down to 300 or 400 mg in a couple of months. I'm not seeing any side effects from taking the 600mg at least. Kidney function is good and all other tests checked out. The 600mg has definitely done a great job in getting my SUA readings down. 3.9 last month and 4.0 this month.
Oh, and I just wanted to add that even though my most recent attacks have subsided quite a bit, I've been having some real problems with my stomach as of late. Horrible cramps and pains. I just started taking up to 880mg of Aleve each day. I wonder if this is causing it or if it's just my body adjusting after a regiment of prednisone or if it's something else? I could chalk it up to about five things when I think about it (not diet, though). It hasn't been pleasant! I've been very, very tired recently too. This past week, although able to walk almost normally again, has not been fun!
VegeGuy – I've had all of my joints x-rayed a few times over the years. The last time was about a year ago. The only noticeable damage was in my two big toes. The doc said those are repairable and that he could clean them out fairly easily. No damage in my other joints as of yet, thankfully! Once I get all of this under control, I may have to have those toes worked on. The flexibility in them is almost null right now. At least I have an excuse not to run the rest of my life
(I hate running – hs and college track – that was enough for me!) I'd much rather bike anyway. In fact, I may even start trying to go for some short and easy rides here soon. My legs need some exercise badly! I'm holding off on any and all weight training until I at least have six months gout-free. Even after that, no more heavy lifting, just light circuit training to keep fit. That's my hope at least!have a good weekend!
Jeff, with long-time gout sufferers, the cure can often seem to be worse than the disease. At least that is how it's been for me over the last seven months. During this time, I've drastically changed my lifestyle, and, well, it's really sucked. It almost did seem that I was better off a year ago when I was 'only' getting horific attacks every couple of months, but was still able to get out and do what I loved. I eventually did hit rock bottom, though, and was unable to do much of anything at all. This is not a point you want to reach! It was then that I got on 600mg of Allopurinol per day, went veggie and completely stopped drinking alcohol. I also wasn't able to ski once during argueably one of the better ski seasons in the Alps in the last twenty years. Sucks to be me!
So, here I am, seven months later, and I really can't say my life is much better. I'm still going through horrific attakcs, I'm unable to do much of anything physical, I always feel like crap, I'm tired, my stomach always hurts, and on and on and on. But, what other choice do I have?
If you read the advice on here, you'll come to understand this is just how it's got to be before you start to see improvment. I'm still waiting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm assured it will come eventually. Until then, I'll just keep on keepin' on, doing what I can to eventually get this gout under control. It's the way of the gout.
Hope I don't sound like too much of a downer – it's been a rough month. There have been many times I've wanted to say 'screw it' go grab a sixer of some good microbrew and chow down on a couple of rare steaks, but I haven't. I know exactly what would happen if I did that and I'm not willing to go down that road again!
Good luck to you!
I haven't tried the black bean broth yet. We bought the stuff to make it but just haven't done it yet. I'm a bit skeptical. I've also tried the cherries and cherry juice, tried the baking soda, tried the all-natural gout cure, plus many other homeopathic and natural remedies. None of it worked for me and I tried each one for periods of a month and longer. But, I'll give the black bean broth a go soon. I love black beans at least
I'll have to get both my knees checked out again soon. I know the right one is damaged, but having the types of pains I'm having in the left one is new. They aren't as bad now since it's been a few days since the attack, but it still doesn't feel right.
Thanks for the well-wishes vege guy! I'm glad you don't want to cut your foot off any more!
I wouldn't mind cutting mine off right now, though. My achilles is still hurting but has gotten better, However, now the attack has moved in to my right ankle. It's not horrific pain, but damn it still hurts. It's throbbing just sitting here. Walking on it is absolutely no fun at all. I guess I can look at it in a positive light and say 'at least it's not as bad as my knee was.' Nope, that doesn't make me feel much better…….Gout Gal ~ I've summarized a few things on my gout blog that may be of some help to you. Check out the 'First Steps' page here:
http://goutactiveperson.blogsp…..steps.html
I mainly wanted to point out this particular fact, though:
“Taking blood for a UA test while in the midst of an attack will usually return lower UA readings than you would expect. This is because much of the UA in your system has been deposited in to specific joints and is not circulating freely in the bloodstream. Always try to get a UA reading when you’re feeling healthy. This will give you a truer measure of your day-to-day UA levels.”
Of course, all of this information is available on Gout-Pal also. I know that it can be confusing to wade through it all at first, however! I created my gout blog basically so I could track my own day-to-day progress and to help me identify possible triggers for my attacks. I also put it all out there in the hopes of helping others that may be in the same boat as me.
Anyway, I think your #1 priority right now should be finding a good doctor or specialist that you can trust and who is familiar with gout. Don't waste your time on a doctor who isn't going to help you or who is only going to guess at what to do. There are proven steps for treating gout and you need to find a doctor who understands these steps!
Best of luck to you!
Hey all,
just wanted to post an update on my latest with my gout. Well, the knee, for the most part, is better. Still a lot of residual pain from what feels like stuff floating around inside the joint. Very sharp pains at times when I walk. But, the swelling and the familiar gout pain is all gone.
However, I am now experiencing a very intense attack in my right achilles area. Very intense. This thing just blew up last night and it hurts! Driving and walking are extremely difficult right now.
I just can't believe, after 7 months on 600mg/day of Allo, that I would get two extreme attacks so close to each other. Well, I guess I can believe it. There must be a lot more crap in my joints than I originally thought. 15 years of untreated gout…….. Let this be a lesson to ya all
I'm pretty bummed about this. Another weekend where my mobility is severly limited. My quality of life has really gone down the shitter the past few months. I was really, really hoping that I'd be much better by the Summer. All I want to do is a little hiking while taking in the fresh mountain air. You know, get outside, see some new things, snap a few pictures. And, so it goes………..
Hi Gout_Gal,
I'm sorry to hear that you've been stricken with this not-so-fun disease at such a young age. My life with gout began at the age of 21 but it took me 15 years until I was properly diagnosed and treated. Be thankful that you are treating this early! Hopefully, with the right drugs and lifestyle tweaks, you will be able to return to a life that you are used to living. This is something that I am hoping for myself, but it's going to take some time.
The best thing you can do right now is find a good doctor who will get you on the correct amount of Allopurinol. Monitor your Uric Acid levels often to make sure your dose of Allopurinol is working. You may experience some bad attacks while starting the Allo, but be assured this is just your body getting rid of any excess UA that may have built up in your joints. It will get better with time.
Good luck, and welcome to the club!
No need to shut up about it, trev
I appreciate the input and feedback! I only say it's likely not any type of infection because I just had my bloodwork done. There were no signs of any infection and I always do get this checked when I get my blood tested. It's a pretty easy indicator that shows up in the tests (discussed with the doc before).I'll try to get my hands on some Colch and give it a two day test run. Not a bad idea. Should have thought of that the other day since this is a long weekend and I will be at home. I'll just make sure to stock up on some TP before instigating the trial run
Perhaps I could purchase some Depends and just wear those to work? I doubt anyone around me would notice the stench since they are so used to using a bathroom filled with the smell of rotting Indian food and rat feces.
trev – I haven't checked that out, but I don't think I have any signs of an infection. I just think that UA has been building up in the soft tissue and around my knee for a while now. Thinking back, I remember having some pain in the back of my knee and along the outside of my knee a long time ago. It was more of a nuisance than anything and I didn't even think to relate it to gout and it never did blow up – until now. I may have an older injury in there that may have prompted this too. I'll get it checked out one of these days. Along with the 15 other things I need to get checked out when I can get away from Blue Cross/Blue Shield (flippin' crooks).
cjeezy – I get horrible stomach cramps from Cochicine, leading to numerous (almost ridiculous levels) of bathroom visits. It hits me almost right away too. But, I'm willing to try it again. I don't know, though. I personally think, especially during moderate attacks, that I would rather have the pain than have to visit the toilet and pee out my butt every 20 minutes. The dehydration this causes is also really bad for me. During a severe attack when I'm stuck at home, I probably would use colchicine again.
Now, I wouldn't be so hesitant to try this again, as it has been a couple of years, if it weren't for the horribly disgusting conditions of the bathrooms on my floor at work. The guys I work with (Army Officers) are disgusting, ill-manored pigs and have no idea how to use shared commodities in an office environment. It's probably similar to using an early 19th century public toilet in the heart of London. Or, a 2010 rest stop toilet on the Czech/German border. Once or twice a day? I can deal. 10 to 20 times a day? No freakin' way.
Maybe I should just try super low doses at first and let my body get used to it? I have tried this before with the results I've listed above, but it may be worth it. Again, not sure. Oh, and another point to note – the Colchicine DID NOT help nor prevent attacks for me while I was using it. Perhaps one to two weeks of use each time isn't long enough to gauge accurate results, though.
(I'm all over the place with this post – better stop on this subject now)
Anyway, I'm back at work today. Not a fun drive in. See my latest blog post for the details.
Doing a bit better today, at least pain-wise. Swelling is still there, however, making the knee pretty unstable. I'm pretty damn worn out today, though. At least the prednisone and percocet is helping, much faster than any other treatment I could undergo. I stayed home again today, using the very last of any time off I have. Oh joy. But, I just couldn't make it in, and I tried.
To answer a few question – I do only have one kidney. I was born that way. I was told it is larger than the average kidney and does the job of two just fine. I'll just have to remember I have only one in case someone asks me to donate in the future
I'm sure this does have something to do with my gout, though. Doctors don't think so, but I haven't dealt with the best batch of medical professionals over the past 15 years…….No colchicine for me. My body does not tolerate it well at all. But, if I ever have a weak off and I'm sticking near home, I may give it another go. The problem is, that is not going to happen any time soon. I can not take that stuff at work though. No way. Even small doses get me bad.
Thanks for all of the information in this thread. Good reading and I appreciate it!
Auf Wiederlesen
trev, I have no idea how many times my knees have gone through bad attacks, but it has been a lot. Each and every time, if left untreated, it can take up to a month or more for it to get back to anywhere near normal. I remember a few where I could barely get around for well over a week because of the pain and swelling. I'm pretty positive that this latest attack I'm having will follow that same course if left untreated. Yes, the pain is in a different place and the swelling seems to be more in my upper leg and upper knee, but there really is no doubt that this is another straight-up gout attack.
I'll have the meds here soon. Just keep your fingers crossed for me that they work!
I finally got through to the doctor. He's putting a prescription in for prednisone and percocet for me and my wife will be picking it up in a couple of hours. Thank goodness he's doing this for me. I don't have time to let this naturally heal which usually would take anywhere from two to four weeks. I need to be back at work, if not tomorrow, at least by Thursday. I just hope the prednisone can do the trick.
It still does seem to be getting worse as the day wears on, too. Each time I get off the couch it is harder to 'walk'. Just the smallest movements are killing me. I was hoping to do a bit of work today at my computer, creating some new posters and pieces from some photos I've recently taken, but there is no way I can sit there with my leg in an uncomfortable position. Absolutely no way.
For those that question the percocet for pain, it does help and helps immensely. Last night I woke up screaming in pain after moving my leg in my sleep. It is that bad.
trev – I'll check out your water post in a bit. This is a topic I'm highly interested in!
New Pictures from this morning. I'm about ready to call my doctor. Offices should be open soon. I really hope there is something they can do – like make a housecall! I just got up to go pee and it was not fun. I just don't see how I could drive let alone make it out to the car. Ughhh.
Thanks for that, GP. Hopefully, this is the last hurrah for me as far as severe attacks are concerned. Hey, even if it takes three years, it will be worth it. But, since I don't have severe tophaceous gout, I'm hoping the process won't be that strung out. Things always seem most dire during a bad attack and, of course, that's where I am right now.
ME – no worries on the ribbing. From other's in pain, I have no problem with it 🙂 Yep, a lot of misunderstanding concerning gout in the general populace. The image of the King with his hamhock in one hand and flaggon of beer in the other still prevails amongst non-gout sufferers.
I may post some more pictures later. The swelling is worse and my mobility is severly limited. I've made a nice nest, with the help of my wife, on the couch. When the orthopedic clinic opens, I'll be calling them to see if I can't get my knee aspirated. That should help somewhat.
I want a Mince Pie, but I didn't eat it all!
Congrats on the weight loss! Just by eating healthy, I've been dropping 1.5 to 2 lbs a month. Nothing drastic, but I'm also getting no exercise because of my gout. I'm just trying my hardest not to balloon up while I'm so inactive.
Hey, this weight loss will only help your future battles with gout and that is great!
Thanks Trev and ME. I did end up coming home from work early. I was looking at my knee in the office and my manager saw it and told me to go home and rest. Really nice of her, but it would be better if I could just take a few days off. I just don't have the sick leave or time off.
I usually don't let the stares and comments bug me, but I do sometimes wish I had a cattle prod or hammer to respond with. It's the dumb jokes that get really old. I have told people to 'f… off' before and then limped away. They usually come back and apologize. Those people are the least of my worries, though.
I'll get through this as I've gotten through all the other attacks. I just wish I knew when or even if there was some end in sight. Although the super, super bad attacks have become less frequent and the attacks overall have become less severe, these last two attacks I've had in the span of three weeks have been bad. Seven months of Allo and super clean living and then this. Ughhhh…..
Here are a couple of pictures of my knee. Most of the swelling is above my left knee which is weird. It makes walking extremely difficult right now. I have no support when I take a step with that leg and it feels like my knee isn't even there because it's not working properly. Tons of pain in the back and on the outside of my leg, though.
I guess I just wasn't expecting the attacks to still be this bad. I can take a lot of pain, but this is slowly approaching unbearable proportions. I've still got today and tomorrow to get through before I see the doc, too. It's going to be a tough 44 hours!
Another bummer is that I will probably have to cancel my trip to France this weekend. My wife and I were going to take it easy at a spa in Chamonix, something I could really use, but I think the drive (7 hours) is going to be too much for me. Another trip thwarted by gout. I just never get a chance to relax and I'm sick of it. So, so sick of it.
thanks VegGuy
Hi ppkul,
I've found that ibuprofen does nothing for me. Naproxen helps a little with minor attacks (I take Aleve). During really, really bad attacks, I usually get a prescription for percocet and prednisone which works very well for me.
I always have some kind of pain going on. Lately, I've just been living with it as I'm trying to cut back on the amount of pills I'm taking – for the sake of my stomache. However, I am also dealing with a bad back and when that is hurting, I do sometimes take Tramadol. This seems to help for my back but I've noticed that it doesn't do much for my gout pain.
So, in short, I generally take nothing for the minor gout aches and pains, 450 mg of Aleve for moderate stuff (more for inflamation – does nothing for pain), and for the really bad attacks, I sometimes – not always – get percocet and prednisone.
I have tried colchicine in the past and my system did not handle it well. Apparently this works very good for a lot of people, though. Not necessarily for pain, but at least to stave off attacks which means you wouldn't have to deal with pain as long. The prednisone works in this regard for me.
(I hope this makes sense. I only got two hours of sleep last night and I'm not thinking too well right now!)
Dang, Trev! I hope you're feeling better!! I've never had that type of reaction to any kind of bite (knock on wood…)
Hi ppkul ~
I’ve been suffering from gout for approximately 15 years now. I wasn’t diagnosed with definitive gout until the fall of 2009 after finally finding a doctor who knew how to treat gout. I am currently taking 600 mg/day of Allopurinol and have been for seven months. As my body has been cleansing itself, I’ve suffered two very bad attacks in various joints (ankles, Achilles, foot, wrist, fingers) and numerous minor attacks (my left knee right now). None of these attacks, however, were or are anywhere near as bad as the attacks of the previous years. Not even close, yet still painful and debilitating.
The process is going to be different for everyone, but I know it’s still going to take a good amount of time for the built-up UA to be cleansed from my system. It took 15 years to build up in the joints, so I’m not expecting any six month miracles!
Although I’m still so hobbled right now that I really have to limit my activities, I am getting better. Just be patient and stay the course! Best of luck to you!
Sean – I only have one kidney but didn't find this out until late last fall. This was never known because tests throughout my life had always shown normal kidney functions. All doctors / specialists I have spoken to since finding out suspect that it MAY be one reason for my gout but definitely isn't the only reason.
This might not be pertinent to what you're asking, but I thought I would share that little fact. However, besides getting my UA checked monthly, I also have other tests performed such as kidney functions, liver functions, cholestorol, etc…
I really hope your kidneys are fine. Trev is totally right – live with gout but not without kidneys!
take care
Thanks VegeGuy – be interested to hear your report. Hopefully working out won't cause any adverse reactions for you.
So true, zip. As I've said before, what in the heck do they think I'm going to do with a three day supply of this stuff? Go hawk it on a corner in Munich?
I was actually given Celebrex when I lived in Alaksa. The doctor did a cursory examine and then gave me some sample packs he had just received. So, as I always do before taking anything, I went home and researched the drug. This was right when all of the negative press was starting regarding Celebrex and other COX-2 inhibitors. Suffice to say, I didn't take any of it after reading through some of the findings.
