July 14, 2015 at 10:20 am #21786Dorian KramerParticipant
So after obsessive reading(driving my wife and myself crazy) I have started to come up with some ideas about uric acid. Please feel free to tell me if any of this sounds stupid. the first thing I found fascinating is why our body needs it and why it increases with exercise. Uric acid is a antioxidant with some anti inflammatory properties, it is a good chance that since we primates don’t produce our own vitamin c that we use this instead, possibly one of the reasons that things like green tea (which according to one study reduces the body’s increase of uric acid after exercise) and vitamin c can be so helpful. I think that for many gout sufferers there may be a link to low or high level chronic inflammation, by the way certain labs now do tests for chronic inflammatory markers. Okay so where the hell am I going with this. One of the things that I found interesting here and on the internet is a portion of gout sufferers who have good UA levels and still years later suddenly have attacks. To me that means that something is not being resolved, I think the answer may lie in Traditional Chinese medicine(TCM). In TCM there are a few principles involved here a main one is Damp Heat, in TCM damp heat is a progressive situation in which it interferes with all life functions, eventually as this stays in the system the heat causes the damp to congeal into phlegm(think harder little nodules) this can also invade the blood level causing blood stagnation and heat/toxin. When we look t the acupuncture points that effect damp heat, especially in the liver and spleen channels(the main channels involved here) and we look at research on their effects we see that, many reduce over active liver enzymes ( especially when combined with estim), while other produce uricosuric effects, still others can help kidney functions especially in the glomerulus and distal tubules, the places where damage can cause less elimination or mare re-uptake respectively. When we look at the herbs that have XO inhibitory properties, most share TCM functions of eliminating dampness, eliminating damp heat, clearing heat toxins, plus they often help to normalize a liver/spleen disharmony. Both of these modalities can remove heat or chroni inflammation. Now I am not suggesting giving up your medications, I am suggesting that perhaps adding in these modalities may enable you to lower dosages, and or address any long term side effects. I also wonder if this longterm retained heat could lower the crystallization point for some, now I know this sounds counterintuitive since in western science it is cold that causes this but in TCM heat and stagnation can interfere with qi and blood flow to the extremities, leading to excess cold in those areas. Just some thoughts and here are some links
very interested in responsesJuly 15, 2015 at 10:38 am #21792aliceParticipant
Thank you for posting that info. I found it fascinating.July 15, 2015 at 2:10 pm #21793Dorian KramerParticipant
You are welcome, thank you for your response. I also wanted to mention that for those whoare dealing with any medication side effects amny of the herbs used in the above patterns also have hepatoprotective and anti-nephrotoxic functions. Which most likely would help to reduce any longterm kidney and or liver complications from meds. But be warned the same issues one can have with allopathic MD’s one can have with any practitioners of any medicine. not everyone is good, or keeps up with modern research. Don’t be afraid to question any practitioner.
here are a few more links I found, most are only the abstracts
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/272360014_Magnesium_lithospermate_B_improves_metabolic_changes_in_high-fat_diet-fed_rats_with_metabolic_syndromeJuly 29, 2015 at 3:35 am #21862Keith TaylorKeymaster
I’m not discounting TCM, but I have absolutely no knowledge of it. I’m very willing to learn!!
For now, let me give my Western Medicine view on ” a portion of gout sufferers who have good UA levels and still years later suddenly have attacks”
I believe this has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Important factors are:
– Duration of untreated high uric acid
– Typical level when untreated
– Duration of treated uric acid
– Typical levels achieved during treatment
The overriding factor is that we cannot see uric acid deposits in our bodies. Our best “gold standard” test is a fallible joint fluid test. That only measures floating crystals in the joints. It never shows deposits locked up in tophi that are the main source of prolonged gout attacks during uric acid lowering treatment.
This can be resolved using the latest DECT techniques, but such tests are not readily available.
One thing is certain to me – Western Medicine does not have all the answers. We do not understand how gout attacks actually occur. We suspect that gout flares require the presence of uric acid crystals plus “something else.” Leading researchers might have some ideas about the “something else” but it is bound to be very complex. It is not likely to be one single factor, but perhaps a combination of factors – some of which promote gout flares, and some which inhibit them.
There is a chance that traditional medicines have ways of suppressing gout flares that WM practitioners have missed.
Personally, I believe that you need to find what is right for you. That’s why discussions like this are important to me. It’s also why I’m constantly seeking ways to make my gout support services completely focused on individual needs.July 29, 2015 at 3:45 am #21864Stevio GoutPal SupportParticipant
Slightly off topic, but here is a reminder of how you can encourage and reward topics that interest you.
At the beginning of each topic in these gout forums, is a link that says “Favorite”
When you click it, it changes to “Favorited”
Marking a gout topic as one of your favorites does 2 things:
1. It rewards the person who posted the topic.
2. It tells Keith which topics most members are interested in.
If you find Traditional Medicines interesting, please click the Favorite link now, otherwise, please find other topics to give your vote to. There is no limit to the number of topics you can call your Favorites.
Of course, replying to topics you are interested in makes even more sense. Topics that generate replies are my Favorites!
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