November 6, 2014 at 11:09 pm #18206
Let me start by saying this is not an ad. I have no financial interest in this. I ran across this article:
Xanthine oxidase inhibitors from the leaves of Lagerstroemia speciosa (L.) Pers.
Unno, T., Sugimoto, A., Kakuda, T.,
It is available in English online. It contains a wealth of information, and is worth reading. It makes the case that mg per mg the valoneic acid dilactone the authors extracted from banaba leaves is as good an XO inhibitor as allopurinol. The article also points out that regular warm water extracts of banaba contain very low levels of VAD. They used an alcohol extract to reach meaningful concentrations. There are other sources of VAD and there are other natural XO inhibitors. As a side note many natural XO inhibitors are in low concentrations in English walnuts making them a great snack for gout sufferers.
I found an alcohol extract from banaba leaves in the form of a tincture from Tropilab.
It is well known that starting on an XO inhibitor can trigger gout flare ups. I could tell the difference between a regular gout flare-up, and one triggered by an XO inhibitor. While the pain of both could be quite acute, the duration of a XO inhibitor flare was quite short, 24 hours or less. Follow the directions on the bottle to start, then adjust as necessary. Best of luck.November 7, 2014 at 8:27 pm #18221BaldersonMnGuest
Thanks a lot for the post.Really thank you! Fantastic.November 7, 2014 at 9:06 pm #18230
Very interesting, @czkewr, and welcome to the forum.
The last time we discussed this, @zip2play raised interesting points about possible effects on diabetics and ‘hypoglychemics’.
I raised a few questions about practical issues of banaba for gout:
- How do you control dosage?
- How do you know it is safe?
- Are there any long term health risks?
- What are the costs compared to proven uric acid lowering medications.
So, bob, maybe you have some answers for those. In particular, you say “Follow the directions on the bottle to start, then adjust as necessary.” I’m assuming that as necessary means ‘until uric acid lowers to 5mg/dL, or lower.’
Would you mind sharing your uric acid test results? What was it before you started, and what are your uric acid levels now? How long before your uric acid started to drop?
To other gout sufferers, I’d like to ask if you have any experience of natural xanthine oxidase inhibitors? In our earlier discussion, I mentioned there are many more that have been studied. I’d love to publish some case studies about alternatives to allopurinol and Uloric, but I need the facts. Please share your experiences of natural products for lowering uric acid.
November 8, 2014 at 3:23 am #18238
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Keith Taylor. Reason: Corrected bad copy and paste formatting
You can answer most of your questions yourself. Simply google banaba and start reading. Its what I did.
I started 8 months ago with a low dose of the ordinary extract available from many supplement suppliers. My feet reported good results, but I was not free of pain. I paid attention to my feet, and slowly increased the dosage. I take the tincture 1 ml with water 3 times per day on an empty stomach. But as I said, I started low.
BobNovember 9, 2014 at 1:00 am #18251
Wow! When I ask members if they’d care to share a little gout experience in the hope of encouraging fellow sufferers, I don’t expect to be told to google it! 😥
Anyways, I tried variations of bob, @czkewr uric acid test results, banaba and gout, but I couldn’t find anything relevant.
One thing I did find however is:
Banabas are extremely poisonous alone, much more so when eaten with milk, a known host to multiple organisms capable of producing toxins as by products of everyday life processes.
Doesn’t sound good.November 9, 2014 at 7:07 am #18262
My apologies to you. I am so glad to hear that you only want to share a bit of information. I had thought that your aggressive line of questioning had another motive.
I would like you to share the source of your important warning information about banaba. When I search for safety information about banaba all I find is “generally recognized as safe”
I will share some more about banaba. It was an advertisement on your site for Urcinol that mentioned the importance of banaba for treating gout. Upon further reading including especially the article I cited in my first post, I decided that the makers of Urcinol were on the right track.
Since you believe that Banaba is potentially poisonous, I’m sure you will want to share the safety and efficacy information you received from the makers of Urcinol before you agreed to host their ads.
Thanks so much,
BobNovember 14, 2014 at 1:14 am #18336
Cheers Bob. I need to review my advertising policy to make sure it’s clear. I use a trusted third party to host most adverts. As such, I don’t vet them individually, but I do promise to block adverts that members find offensive. Also, third party adverts have an individual blocking facility.
I’d appreciate some suggestions from members to guide me on this. What do you think I should do to improve my advertising policies, or are they OK? Should I remove adverts completely, and adopt a paid membership model?
More importantly, I need advice on how my opinions come across. There is absolutely no way I ever intended my curiosity about the effects of banaba to be aggressive. When I read about natural alternatives to allopurinol, I get very excited. Even more so when laboratory claims are supported by real life experience. This experience is invaluable to other gout sufferers, so I tend to ask questions on their behalf.
The thing about allopurinol, and other pharmaceuticals, is there are thousands of studies about them. I can ask my questions by searching PubMed and Scholar. In this case, I only have one source of information, so I have many questions. Could members suggest how I might have worded my questions better to prevent them being aggressive?February 6, 2020 at 2:06 pm #23810natesnathanParticipant
They’ve been using banaba in the philippines for hundreds of years with success on blood sugar control. There is no toxicity known. Only recently have there been clinical trials on blood sugar and XO inhibition. It states on drugs.com and web MD no toxicity although there may be contraindications in combinations with other drugs. My last test before getting on allopurinol was 8.8 on it i was 5. i started taking banaba after quitting allopurinol and my UA held at 5. i’ll wait a couple months and see if it holds then post the numbers.February 7, 2020 at 11:30 am #23812
I’m surprised to see this topic re-opened after 6 years. Especially as I thought I’d closed this forum in favor of the new gout forum at GoutPal.net.
Anyway, if people want to discuss banaba and gout here, that’s fine by me. Especially, as there have been no recent discussions apart from a passing mention in Gout with chianca piedra, and or banaba leaves.
But I do wish statements like “It states on drugs.com and web MD” were backed up with some links. Or even a page title.February 9, 2020 at 9:02 am #23817natesnathanParticipant
if people can’t go to either site and put search “banaba” they have bigger problems than gout lol. incidentally your post from 6 years ago about toxicity was literally a simple statement by some random person not even remotely connected to anything scientific? You can search the statement “Banabas are extremely poisonous alone.” This is unequivocally untrue even in high doses…February 10, 2020 at 1:55 am #23818
6 years ago I gave up trying to communicate with Keith about banaba. He clearly has some other agenda. I’ve been using banaba all these years. Almost completely pain free. How many allopurinol users can claim that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15234783
VAD and EA in banaba more effective than allopurinol.
Simply google xanthine oxidase inhibitors. There are many articles about natural inhibitors. Keith manages to find the one article about XO inhibitors that is unsubstantiated rot which he posts to his site. To all: Do your own research.
BobFebruary 13, 2020 at 10:58 am #23820
Thank you Nate and Bob.
Your last 2 comments have really got me thinking these past few days. Because in real life I’m a friendly guy. Also, in my helpdesk, I’m very careful to consider the individual I’m communicating with.
But on the forums, maybe because I feel publicly exposed, I get very defensive. Which you’ve told me comes across as aggression.
So I’ve had a long hard talk to myself about my forum behavior. Hopefully, I’ll stop getting snarly when things don’t go my way. Then I hope I’ll make myself clearer and more useful.
I’m making no excuses.
Looking forward, as soon as I get time I’ll explain:
– Why banaba extract is probably good for most gout sufferers.
– Why some people might need to be vigilant.
– What the latest toxicity investigations say.
In a nutshell, banaba is safe within the rules of herbal supplements. But certain tests would need to be carried out if it was to be recognized as completely safe in some countries.
In the context of good gout treatment, everyone should have blood tests at least once a year. With more frequent testing during treatment changes. Until results have stabilized.
The important tests for most gout patients are uric acid, kidney function, and liver function. But doctors might advise more tests if patients have other diseases. In any case, these tests will confirm that banaba extract is safe and effective for uric acid control.
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